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Author
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Topic: Query on WWII German military terms
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Greg LG Senior Member
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posted 06-18-2003 03:51 PM
Hi,Did the German Army in WWII have a term for the advance units of their armor formations during exploitation? Regards, Greg
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vkun Member
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posted 06-19-2003 04:57 AM
Vorausabteilung
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Greg LG Senior Member
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posted 06-19-2003 12:02 PM
quote: Vorausabteilung
The meaning was then "advance guard," roughly? Was there an abbreviation for it much like "PzKpfw" for "PanzerKampfwagon?" Many thanks. [This message has been edited by Greg LG (edited 06-19-2003).]
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vkun Member
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posted 06-20-2003 11:17 AM
I don't think that there was a standardized abbreviation for Vorausabteilung. I looked up Wolfgang Schneider's "Panzertaktik" On p. 125 is a map from the division history of 4. PzDiv. It uses "Vorausabt" but I can also think of other possibilities like V-abt or Vor-abt ... depends on how much patience the map drawer had..
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Greg LG Senior Member
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posted 06-20-2003 05:22 PM
Thank you, vkun. This has been helpful.Greg
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jkaram1 Member
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posted 01-03-2004 07:06 PM
At least at the tactical level, the lead formation was referred to as the "spitze," or spearhead. During the Ardennes Offensive, KG Peiper's spitze was a mixed force (platoon of panzers, platoon of panzergrenadiers) commanded by SS-Lt. Werner Sternebeck.Whether the term "spitze" was used at higher levels I can't say.
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Gary Dickson Senior Member
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posted 01-09-2004 05:48 PM
I've run into some abbreviation in German records at the National Archives (US). In a report marked "Gep.Kfz Lage, Truppenmeldung" it lists armored vehicles under three categories: e, i, and Z. Any idea what that means? Maybe on-hand, short-term repair, long-term repair?Also, in a different hand-written report for infantry regiments it has: 183. Div. I.R. 330 a)=6, b)=70 I.R. 343 a)=6, b)=65 I.R. 351 a)=9, b)=53 Any idea what the "a" and "b" mean? Thanks
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Rich Moderator
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posted 01-12-2004 10:28 AM
quote: Originally posted by Gary Dickson: I've run into some abbreviation in German records at the National Archives (US). In a report marked "Gep.Kfz Lage, Truppenmeldung" it lists armored vehicles under three categories: e, i, and Z. Any idea what that means? Maybe on-hand, short-term repair, long-term repair?
Gary e is for einsatzbereit or "ready-for-action." i is for instandsetzung or "in repair." Z is for Zufuhrung or "allocated" or for Zulauf or "en route." Sort and long-term repair were not always identified seperately, but if not then usually the reports appear to only give those in short-term (normally that meant under 14-days as opposed to the US/British definition, which was over 24-hours, but still with the unit trains). quote: Also, in a different hand-written report for infantry regiments it has:183. Div. I.R. 330 a)=6, b)=70 I.R. 343 a)=6, b)=65 I.R. 351 a)=9, b)=53 Any idea what the "a" and "b" mean? Thanks
The normal code was: a = gefallen or killed-in-action b = verwundete or wounded c = vermisste or missing
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Gary Dickson Senior Member
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posted 01-15-2004 09:30 PM
Hmm, I did a little more looking and found some type-written pages with similar information. It looks like the "a)" is the number of companies and the "b)" is Durchschnittsstarke, which the on-line dictionary translates as "average strength". I also see the word "Gefechtestarke", which I guess literally means "skirmish strength". Does that mean the number of riflemen or actual fighters? Then there's "Trosstarke", which I have no idea what that means!Gary
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Rich Moderator
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posted 01-16-2004 09:49 AM
quote: Originally posted by Gary Dickson: Hmm, I did a little more looking and found some type-written pages with similar information. It looks like the "a)" is the number of companies and the "b)" is Durchschnittsstarke, which the on-line dictionary translates as "average strength". I also see the word "Gefechtestarke", which I guess literally means "skirmish strength". Does that mean the number of riflemen or actual fighters? Then there's "Trosstarke", which I have no idea what that means!Gary
Okay, different type of report, so yes, a different coding and meaning. These are reporting the number of "schutzen" or rifle companies in the regiment and the average "gefechtsstaerke" or figting strength of the companies. Gefechtsstaerke was a measure that calculated the number of men directly involved in combat. For an infantry unit that was the rifelemen and heavy weapons crewmen of the company. The "tross" was literally the "baggege" - that is all the support personnel of the unit. Totaling a units gefechtsstaerke and tross would equal their Tagesstaerke or daily strength. Hope that helps.
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Gary Dickson Senior Member
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posted 01-19-2004 09:06 PM
Thanks, that's a big help.
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Andreas Senior Member
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posted 02-04-2004 09:46 AM
quote: Originally posted by vkun: I don't think that there was a standardized abbreviation for Vorausabteilung. I looked up Wolfgang Schneider's "Panzertaktik" On p. 125 is a map from the division history of 4. PzDiv. It uses "Vorausabt" but I can also think of other possibilities like V-abt or Vor-abt ... depends on how much patience the map drawer had..
VA is the shortcut I have seen most of the time.
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