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Author Topic:   Query on WWII German military terms
Greg LG
Senior Member
posted 06-18-2003 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg LG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,

Did the German Army in WWII have a term for the advance units of their armor formations during exploitation?

Regards,
Greg

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vkun
Member
posted 06-19-2003 04:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vkun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Vorausabteilung

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Greg LG
Senior Member
posted 06-19-2003 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg LG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Vorausabteilung

The meaning was then "advance guard," roughly? Was there an abbreviation for it much like "PzKpfw" for "PanzerKampfwagon?"

Many thanks.

[This message has been edited by Greg LG (edited 06-19-2003).]

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vkun
Member
posted 06-20-2003 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vkun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think that there was a standardized abbreviation for Vorausabteilung. I looked up Wolfgang Schneider's "Panzertaktik" On p. 125 is a map from the division history of 4. PzDiv. It uses "Vorausabt" but I can also think of other possibilities like V-abt or Vor-abt ... depends on how much patience the map drawer had..

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Greg LG
Senior Member
posted 06-20-2003 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg LG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, vkun. This has been helpful.

Greg

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jkaram1
Member
posted 01-03-2004 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkaram1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At least at the tactical level, the lead formation was referred to as the "spitze," or spearhead. During the Ardennes Offensive, KG Peiper's spitze was a mixed force (platoon of panzers, platoon of panzergrenadiers) commanded by SS-Lt. Werner Sternebeck.

Whether the term "spitze" was used at higher levels I can't say.

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Gary Dickson
Senior Member
posted 01-09-2004 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary Dickson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've run into some abbreviation in German records at the National Archives (US). In a report marked "Gep.Kfz Lage, Truppenmeldung" it lists armored vehicles under three categories: e, i, and Z. Any idea what that means? Maybe on-hand, short-term repair, long-term repair?

Also, in a different hand-written report for infantry regiments it has:

183. Div.
I.R. 330 a)=6, b)=70
I.R. 343 a)=6, b)=65
I.R. 351 a)=9, b)=53

Any idea what the "a" and "b" mean?

Thanks

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Rich
Moderator
posted 01-12-2004 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rich     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dickson:
I've run into some abbreviation in German records at the National Archives (US). In a report marked "Gep.Kfz Lage, Truppenmeldung" it lists armored vehicles under three categories: e, i, and Z. Any idea what that means? Maybe on-hand, short-term repair, long-term repair?

Gary e is for einsatzbereit or "ready-for-action." i is for instandsetzung or "in repair." Z is for Zufuhrung or "allocated" or for Zulauf or "en route." Sort and long-term repair were not always identified seperately, but if not then usually the reports appear to only give those in short-term (normally that meant under 14-days as opposed to the US/British definition, which was over 24-hours, but still with the unit trains).

quote:
Also, in a different hand-written report for infantry regiments it has:

183. Div.
I.R. 330 a)=6, b)=70
I.R. 343 a)=6, b)=65
I.R. 351 a)=9, b)=53

Any idea what the "a" and "b" mean?

Thanks


The normal code was:

a = gefallen or killed-in-action
b = verwundete or wounded
c = vermisste or missing

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Gary Dickson
Senior Member
posted 01-15-2004 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary Dickson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm, I did a little more looking and found some type-written pages with similar information. It looks like the "a)" is the number of companies and the "b)" is Durchschnittsstarke, which the on-line dictionary translates as "average strength". I also see the word "Gefechtestarke", which I guess literally means "skirmish strength". Does that mean the number of riflemen or actual fighters? Then there's "Trosstarke", which I have no idea what that means!

Gary

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Rich
Moderator
posted 01-16-2004 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rich     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dickson:
Hmm, I did a little more looking and found some type-written pages with similar information. It looks like the "a)" is the number of companies and the "b)" is Durchschnittsstarke, which the on-line dictionary translates as "average strength". I also see the word "Gefechtestarke", which I guess literally means "skirmish strength". Does that mean the number of riflemen or actual fighters? Then there's "Trosstarke", which I have no idea what that means!

Gary


Okay, different type of report, so yes, a different coding and meaning. These are reporting the number of "schutzen" or rifle companies in the regiment and the average "gefechtsstaerke" or figting strength of the companies. Gefechtsstaerke was a measure that calculated the number of men directly involved in combat. For an infantry unit that was the rifelemen and heavy weapons crewmen of the company. The "tross" was literally the "baggege" - that is all the support personnel of the unit. Totaling a units gefechtsstaerke and tross would equal their Tagesstaerke or daily strength.

Hope that helps.

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Gary Dickson
Senior Member
posted 01-19-2004 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary Dickson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, that's a big help.

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Andreas
Senior Member
posted 02-04-2004 09:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andreas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by vkun:
I don't think that there was a standardized abbreviation for Vorausabteilung. I looked up Wolfgang Schneider's "Panzertaktik" On p. 125 is a map from the division history of 4. PzDiv. It uses "Vorausabt" but I can also think of other possibilities like V-abt or Vor-abt ... depends on how much patience the map drawer had..

VA is the shortcut I have seen most of the time.

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