I am looking for information on the Battle of Puffendorf Germany, mid-November 1944. Specifically I am interested in Second Armored Divisions attack on the 16th of November, 1944, and the counterattacks by the 9th Panzer Division and 506th Schwere Panzer Abteilung on the 17th of November.

I have read through C. Macdonald's overview of the battle in "The Siegfried Line Campaign". In addition, I came across a fair number of personal accounts from 2nd AD tankers during the engagement contained in Maj. General Issac White's report "A Report on United States vs. German Armor". "Iron Knights: The United States 66th Armored Regiment" does not have much on Puffendorf.

If you are interested in a specific division-level action on a specific day, then I would not recommend any secondary sources. Instead I would recommend that you check the records of the 2nd Armored Division for those days and the records of the 9th Panzer Division and its headquarters. All these are available at the National Archives in the Washington DC area. Assuming there are decent German records (this is not always the case after June 1944), then you will probably learn more about the battle than you can get from any book (although you may not have all the rousing war stories that people like to read).

Where do you live?

Kurt Gätzschmann, Pz.Abt. 51 Heerestruppe - II./Pz.Rgt. 33 9. Pz.Div. 1943-45

which deal with the Panther battalion of 9. Pz.Div. It is very difficult to find, but it contain information hard to find elsewhere. for example there is a by name list (with dates) of all who were killed or reported missing for the battalion. This has been compiled by the author from records at Deutsche Dienststelle. The author served in the battalion and has gathered letters and other material from othe veterans of the unit. Whether he has detailed info on this particular engagement (or if the Panther battalion took part) is unknown to me.

Thanks for the reply. I will keep my eyes peeled for Kurt Gätzschmann's work. All my regular used book internet search engine are drawing a blank on this author. Any suggested German or European book search engines on the net?

Chris:

I live out west in the grand state of Oregon. If you like the rain, you'll love Oregon.

I have wanted to take a trip to the National Archives for sometime now. However, limited vacation time from work and other commitments make flying out to the east coast for research a bit of a pipe dream for an armchair historian like myself. It is interesting in that it is relatively easy for me to obtain British Wartime Archives material via PRO, Kew (for a fee) than it is for me to obtain records from my own countries archives ;o( Perhaps the National Archives will someday provide an internet records search engine and copying services ala PRO, Kew.

Regarding after action combat reports, there is a fellow on the net that sells records for numerous formations involved in fighting…ETO 44-45. He has a fairly extensive catalogue. I have ordered several AAR for various units from the fellow. Great stuff. Unfortunately he does not have 2nd AD AAR's for the Siegfried Campaign available in his inventory.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:
Niklas:

Thanks for the reply. I will keep my eyes peeled for Kurt Gätzschmann's work. All my regular used book internet search engine are drawing a blank on this author. Any suggested German or European book search engines on the net?

---

I have only seen this book at the library at Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in Freiburg. It was printed in 1984.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:
I have wanted to take a trip to the National Archives for sometime now. However, limited vacation time from work and other commitments make flying out to the east coast for research a bit of a pipe dream for an armchair historian like myself.

---

I can recommend ordring the rolls from NARA. The cost is 34 dollars within the US and 39 outside, shipping and handling included. A roll usually contain 1000+ pages of documents and you can read them on machines many libraries have (the rolls are for standard 35 mm film). From these machines, paper copies can be printed. Also, they can be read using a dia-projector (with some tweaking).
To order, you must know the exact designation for the roll(s), which can be found in the series of books titled "Guides to German Records Microfilmed at Alexandria". Purchase forms can be obtained from NARA (or I can send you one).
This is how I have obtained my microfilm rolls (currently approx. 300). I have never been at NARA (in fact I have never been in the United States, despite the fact that I have relatives there, a great omission on my part).
In any case, I have to agree with Chris that chances of finding good German records for november 1944 are not impressive, but it should not be ruled out.

I do consider PRO to be a better outfit than NARA.

I gather one can call an archivist, sort out where the file you are interested might be....and then pay to have it shipped....but I have never tried this. The US records are not on microfilm. Niklas' approach (300 x $34 = $10,200) is probably beyond the reach of the average hobbyist. Also, it helps to be able to read German.

As the US records are probably going to have more detail in them (there may not be any surviving German records), then you will probably need to get hold of them.

I read with interest that you are looking for original information on the 9. Panzer Division. I may be able to put you in contact with the veterans association, and in particular with Dr Karl Kwasnitschka, who was in command of the 2nd Company of 33th Panzer Regiment in August 1944. A French researcher, Mr Fabrice Avoie, and Dominique Forget, director of Archives de Guerres [http://www.archives-de-guerres.fr] organised in June 2000 an interview of Dr Kwasnitschka, who was invited by the French Armour School of Saumur to talk about his war experience. For your information Fabrice Avoie is the author of a detailed booklet about the 9. Panzer Division versus the 5th Armored Division on 9/10 August 1944 [_La libération de Marolles les Braults, Aout 1944, La 5e Division Blindée américaine face à la 9e Panzer Division allemande (1999)]

Hoping that this bit of information may be helpful,

I had anticipated that dollars would be involved. So money is not really the issue - within reason of course ;o). The issue is whom to contact and how to begin sifting through what might be of interest. PRO Kew kind of alleviates some of the sifting process issues via its online catalogue search engine, although it does help to have an idea of what documents might contain potential information of interest. For example I ordered a relatively thick document on what I believed were ordnance reports on the Soviet KV-1 and T34/76 tanks. After paying the processing and copying fees it turned out that the documents were actually correspondence between Moscow and London regarding the possibility of the Soviets shipping a T34/76 to Bovington and Aberdeen. While this was interesting trivia it wasn't really what I was hoping for…oh well 50.00 dollars in copying fees down the tube. ;o)

Niklas:

Thanks I had no idea that micro-film reels could be ordered from NARA. I have actually obtained micro-film reels from the US Air-Force archives but hadn't realized that the oodles of German documents "liberated" during the war (or post war studies written by German Officers in captivity) were obtainable short of traveling to NARA with 10,000 dimes for Xeroxing.

I did come across a *pdf file on the MHI web page which appears to be a catalogue of many of the documents to which you may be refereeing "Guide to Foreign Military Studies (German Officer Reports), 1954". I don't know if this document is still current, I suspect report reference numbers are perhaps the same. I have leafed through this immense catalogue and identified numerous studies that I would love to obtain…even if they are in German. This is the direct URL to the catalogue:

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/cgi-bin/usamhi/DL/showdoc.pl?docnum=350

Note this is a direct link to a relatively large *.pdf file.

Mr. Erk:

This is indeed an honor to hear from you. I, as well as many of my colleagues were rather disappointed when we found out about the Musée des Blindés, Saumur Web Page being discontinued. Although I was not a member of the forum, I did enjoy stopping in at the forum and reading through some of the topics being discussed there.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:

Thanks I had no idea that micro-film reels could be ordered from NARA. I have actually obtained micro-film reels from the US Air-Force archives but hadn't realized that the oodles of German documents "liberated" during the war (or post war studies written by German Officers in captivity) were obtainable short of traveling to NARA with 10,000 dimes for Xeroxing.

I did come across a *pdf file on the MHI web page which appears to be a catalogue of many of the documents to which you may be refereeing "Guide to Foreign Military Studies (German Officer Reports), 1954". I don't know if this document is still current, I suspect report reference numbers are perhaps the same. I have leafed through this immense catalogue and identified numerous studies that I would love to obtain…even if they are in German.

---

It appears from C. Macdonald's account of Puffendorf in US ARMY in World War II Official History that 9th Panzer was part of XLVII Panzer Korps. I'm not sure what higher level formation 506th Schwere Panzer Abteilung was attached; Perhaps XLVII Panzer Korps as well.

I having been snooping about the net and it sounds like there are some 1670 NARA microfilm rolls detailing "Field Commands: Corps" under "Captured German and Related Records at the National Archives". There are an additional 2379 rolls under the Field Commands: Divisions" category. You had mentioned, "Guides to German Records Microfilmed at Alexandria" in a previous post. Presumably these are catalogues describing what is contained on each of these microfilm roles.

Out of curiosity -- as it sounds like you have a relatively huge data base of microfilm records from NARA -- have you invested in a your own microfilm viewer?

From: C. Macdonald's "The Siegfried Line Campaign" Page 531

quote:

---

In mid-afternoon of 16 November, officers at OB WEST had estimated that five Allied armored and seven infantry divisions were involved in the offensive against Fifteenth Army (Gruppe von Manteuffel). Though they overestimated the number of divisions, they were correct in divining this as the Allied main effort. At 1715 Field Marshal von Rundstedt released his strongest reserve force to Army Group B for use in Fifteenth Army's sector. This was the XLVII Panzer Corps with the 15th Panzer Grenadier and 9th Panzer Divisions, already positioned close behind Gruppe von Manteuffel's front lines. Rundstedt also ordered two volks artillery corps and "all available GHQ combat forces" to move to the threatened sector.

The most immediately dangerous threat obviously was the 2d U.S. Armored Division's penetration at Puffendorf in the open "tank country" of the Roer plain. Fifteenth Army {Gruppe von Manteuffel) ordered that the 9th Panzer Division counterattack early the next morning, 17 November, to "wipe out" this penetration. The counterattack was to be supported by an attached headquarters unit, the 506th Heavy Tank Battalion, which had thirty-six Mark VI (Tiger) tanks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:

It appears from C. Macdonald's account of Puffendorf in US ARMY in World War II Official History that 9th Panzer was part of XLVII Panzer Korps. I'm not sure what higher level formation 506th Schwere Panzer Abteilung was attached; Perhaps XLVII Panzer Korps as well.

---

The 47th Panzer Corps has been haunting me for a long while. It took part in Zitadelle, but most of its records for that operation were destroyed during the war, it took part in Normandy, but virtually no records survived and also its reporting to 5th Panzer Army was much less comprehensive compared to the other corps subordinated to that army. Its records for Korsun/Cherkassy are better (one quite good roll), but much less comprehensive than the records for e.g. 3rd Panzer corps on its left.

The rolls for 47th Panzer Corps can be found in Guides to German Records microfilmed at Alexandria, Va 60-62 (1969). I think it is only possible to loan this title from a good library, like a major university library. In Sweden I think there are only two or three copies of this work.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:

Out of curiosity -- as it sounds like you have a relatively huge data base of microfilm records from NARA -- have you invested in a your own microfilm viewer?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Lawrence:
Jeff, you will want to make sure you also check the Army files. Often they contian more useful information than the Corps or Division files..

---

Also, I suspect chances are somewhat better that records from 15th Army have survived.
The rolls for 15th Army are listed in
Guides to German Records microfilmed at Alexandria, Va 46-49 (1965)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:
Thanks Rich.

You havent by chance ever come across any reference to the 711th TD Battalion in any US ARMY ETO OoB's have you. I'm begining to think this was a typo.

---

Most definitely a typo, there was no 711th TD Bn. Likely they meant 701st or 771st.