I also came across this same weapon in a British Army of The Rhine Intelligence report on Red Army equipment and ordnance generated in 1946.

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Originally posted by Alex H:
Is this not a copy of the 88mm "Pupchen" weapons?

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Pupchen was not a recoilless weapon, was it? The only Soviet weapon similar in principle was the 73mm "Grom" cannon on the BMP-1, which fires the same round as the SPG-9. I think the SPG-82 owed more to the Panzerschreck in concept.

The SPG-82 was developed right at the end of WW2 and was troop-tested but was not deployed. There was a mention of it in a Military Parade article some time ago, which also made a reference to a larger, 122mm weapon of the same type. I am not certain on this, but I think the SPG-82 was a rocket launcher rather than a recoilless rifle.

There is another Soviet 82mm AT weapon from that period, the B-10 recoilless gun which served for a while with the Soviet Army beginning in late '50s or so, saw action in the Middle East and Vietnam, but on the whole it was not considered an effective weapon on account of its low accuracy and range. In Soviet Army units, where it was deployed at bn level, it was temporarily replaced by the WW2-vintage 57mm AT guns until the new SPG-9 73mm weapons became available. There also existed a larger, 107mm recoilless gun, but it probably was just as unsuccessful.

[This message has been edited by Mike J (edited 08-24-2001).]

http://www.geocities.com/jeffduquette/stuff/Soviet_SPG82.html

To elaborate a bit more on my question, I recently came across a rather obscure reference in Alan Clark’s “Barbarossa, The Russian-German Conflict, 1941-1945” to something which Clark indicates was called a Cheristikye. I have been unable to find an exact translation for this word. A friend even emailed the Clark passage and the word along to David Glantz. Glantz was seemingly perplexed as to what a Cheristikye was and had not apparently come across the thing before in any of his research.

Clark’s footnote for the word indicates the following:

“Cheristikye: The Russian equivalent of the Bazooka anti-tank rocket.

I have scanned in the exact passage and put it on the same URL indicated above. Page 435 of Clark...not much to go on. The reference is to a late war (Jan 1945) counterattack by German armor around Poznan being broken up by “Cheristikyes”.

It's almost definitely the same weapon as the one described in the Military Parade article I referred to earlier, which stated that the weapon was deemed unsuccessful after troop tests. Perhaps it was issued on a limited scale to airborne troops, etc. I'd need to check the article to refresh my memory, but I'm fairly certain that the weapon was a post-war development. A Russian book on Soviet small arms development in WW2 in my possession (which covers light AT weapons) makes no mention of it.

To elaborate a bit more on my question, I recently came across a rather obscure reference in Alan Clark’s “Barbarossa, The Russian-German Conflict, 1941-1945” to something which Clark indicates was called a Cheristikye. I have been unable to find an exact translation for this word. A friend even emailed the Clark passage and the word along to David Glantz. Glantz was seemingly perplexed as to what a Cheristikye was and had not apparently come across the thing before in any of his research.

I'm equally puzzled. The passage doesn't indicate any Westerner ever saw these "bazookas" or how they made the association. These weapons may have been US bazookas (some were sent under Lend Lease) or, more probably, captured German Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks. But the word "cheristikye" is most likely a badly garbled version of the original. The closest Russian word I can think off is "chetyre" [i.e., "four"], but to an untrained ear even the Russian colloquial word for a T-34 (tridtsatchetverka) could conceivably become "cheristikye".

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Jeff: I, too, am puzzled by this word. It does not appear to have any Russian root. It may be a transliteration of something from German or it may be misspelled…

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Regarding the quote from Clark being a reference to American Lend Lease Bazookas, I had considered that, as a possibility. I still do I guess. However the wording of the footnote from Clark seemingly implies a Soviet made bazooka “like” weapon.

Digging through “Soviet\Russian Army Artillery and Armor Design Practices, 1945 to Present” by Hull, Markov and Zaloga, there is a reference on pg 171 stating that the Soviets “may” have started manufacturing their own copy of the panzerfaust and began employing it in the latter days of the war. The book also indicates that large numbers of captured panzerfausts were being distributed to Red Infantry toward the end of the war.

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Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:
MikeJ: I received an email from Major James Gebhardt this morning regarding Cheristikye. Gebhardt has interpreted numerous Soviet Army training and equipment manuals. He also interpreted “Commanding the Red Army’s Shermans” by Dmitriy Loza (Sherman 76mm’s available in Russia in late-1943 ...)

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He didn’t say anything about the SPG-82. In spite of my elaboration on the weapon, his reply was restricted to interpretation of "Cheristikye (or lack there of). He then suggested I try the Russian Military Zone.

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Jeff:

I, too, am puzzled by this word. It does not appear to have any
Russian root. It may be a transliteration of something from German or it
may be misspelled. I suggest you take this issue to the website "Russian
Military Battlefield". There are many Russian speakers working that site,
one of whom may recognize it. The URL is http://history.vif2.ru When you
get to this site, look for the "forum" button. You will have to come up
with a password so that you can enter the forum, but it's not hard.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help.
Jim Gebhardt

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Rich:

Thanks, I do have a fair amount of information accumulated on Soviet anti-tank grenades...technical spec's and the like. I don’t seem to have much information on actual combat employment of these weapons or their effectiveness... Soviet AAR's and the like.

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Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:

I don’t seem to have much information on actual combat employment of these weapons or their effectiveness... Soviet AAR's and the like.

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At Kursk, in the south, the Soviets deployed lots of AT Rifle Battalions, a Molotov cocktail company and a platoon of anti-tank dogs. All these lesser AT systems never get mentioned in the German reports. They are concerned about Soviet Tanks, AT guns, mines and tank ditches. It does not appear that the other AT systems were very effective, or at least not effective enough for the Germans to mention them.

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Zaloga indicates (pg 197 of Red Army Handbook) that 8500 bazookas were sent to the USSR. Are you are saying that this should read only 8500 bazooka [b]rounds were provided via lend-lease?[/B]

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The United States Army in World War II Statistics, Lean-Lease, Prepared by Theordore E. Whiting, Carrel I. Tod, and Anne P. Craft, Office of the Chief of Military History specifically states on page 30 (which is a chart that is clearly addressing ammunition) states "Ammunition for rocket launchers and mortars: 2.36-inch launcher; rocket, HE-AT, M6 series" USSR: 8,500.

So, unless the ordnance department considers the bazooka to be a round of ammunition, it does look like they sent 8,500 rounds.

"[The British at Port Said captured these weapons from the Egyptians!] Another Czech weapon is out of the ordinary, being a smooth-bore 82mm anti-tank device, something of a cross between a rocket launcher and a recoilless gun. The wheels and tow yoke at the muzzle simplify "manpower transport": presumably the thing may be fired with wheels on, but it probably is usually fired (wheels off!) from the shoulder. The yoke could serve as a monpod. This may be the first of a new class of weapons."

So there you go.

"[The British at Port Said captured these weapons from the Egyptians!] Another Czech weapon is out of the ordinary, being a smooth-bore 82mm anti-tank device, something of a cross between a rocket launcher and a recoilless gun. The wheels and tow yoke at the muzzle simplify "manpower transport": presumably the thing may be fired with wheels on, but it probably is usually fired (wheels off!) from the shoulder. The yoke could serve as a monpod. This may be the first of a new class of weapons."

So there you go.

Not necessarily. That's the Czech Tarasnice, which may or may not be the same weapon as the SPG-82:

http://www.soft.net.uk/entrinet/tactics7a.htm

http://www.gunsite.narod.ru/tarasnice_t21.htm

The photograph shows a weapon with a trigger assembly ahead of the wheels. Didn't the SPG-82 have its trigger assembly behind the wheels? Also, the Tarasnice was a recoilless cannon, rather than a rocket launcher.

As to the Soviet late war AT rocket launcher, I just realized that part of the confusion may be that the Soviet Army designation "RPG" in World War II actually designated a hand thrown AT grenade and not a rifle grenade or rocket propelled grenade.

Yes, the "G" stands for either grenade or grenade launcher, depending on the weapon.

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Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:

Thanks, I do have a fair amount of information accumulated on Soviet anti-tank grenades...technical spec's and the like. I don’t seem to have much information on actual combat employment of these weapons or their effectiveness... Soviet AAR's and the like.

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Thanks for clarification on Lend-Lease Bazooka rounds. Big difference between 8500 rounds sent over, and 8500 weapons sent over.

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Rich Said: As to the Soviet late war AT rocket launcher, I just realized that part of the confusion may be that the Soviet Army designation "RPG" in World War II actually designated a hand thrown AT grenade and not a rifle grenade or rocket propelled grenade.

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I suspect that this is probably the right answer to my Cheristikye question. I read somewhere that the Soviets were fond of nicknaming grenades after fruits and vegetables. Perhaps Cheristikye is slang for persimmon or some such thing.

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Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:
Chris and Rich:

I suspect that this is probably the right answer to my Cheristikye question. I read somewhere that the Soviets were fond of nicknaming grenades after fruits and vegetables. Perhaps Cheristikye is slang for persimmon or some such thing.

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Actually, the Soviet RPG locked like a crude copy of the German panzerwurfminen. So something like an outsized potato masher or the pestle in a mortar and pestle. So what the heck is Russian for potato masher or a similar kitchen implement? Chris, ask Tanya.