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Author Topic:   AGC Logistics Barbarossa Jun-Sep 1941
Sean Oliver
Member
posted 03-12-2008 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sean Oliver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm wondering if anyone can help with some data/figures (or any good sources besides microfilm at College Park) concerning Army Group Center's logistical capability and supply consumption - especially artillery ammo - during Barbarossa, but prior to Oct 41.

I'm looking to analyze the campaign's supply situation and compare corps' and hopefully divisions' deliveries and consumption of food fuel and ammo on a weekly or 10-day basis from 6.22.41 until 9.30.41.

This line of inquiry was triggered by the commander of IX Corps, Hermann Geyer, who states in his account of the campaign that his corps didn't have serious supply problems until the defensive, positional warfare (mostly centered around Elnia) developed. He says (and strongly implies) that if AGC had kept attacking eastwards throughout Aug-Sep, thus keeping the precarious Soviet armies from regaining their balance, the logistical problems would not have been as severe as they were, at least for his infantry divisions.

Simply put, maintaining the advance helps keep overall supply consumption low because artillery ammo consumption is low; staying on the move helps prevent the enemy from forming a defensive line which will require more ammo to break through, etc etc. Apparently POL 'weighs less' than artillery ammo...(?)

This prompts a number of questions about German planning for Barbarossa, and ultimately whether logistical problems were the cause of operational failures - or whether operational (in)decisions made by a certain Supreme Commander exacerbated or possibly caused AGC's logistical problems.

Although many historians have emphatically stated Barbarossa was doomed to failure because of AGC's allegedly insurmountable supply difficulties, I have yet to see any truly good, hard data from AGC's supply records, anywhere.

The only source on this is a 700 page book called 'Logistik im Russlandfeldzug' by KAF Schueler. I have a copy, and have not read all of it, but it seems to focus primarily upon the Reichsbahn's role only, rather than a detailed, comprehensive examination of all aspects of logistics.

The author comes to the rather bland and obvious conclusion that the Reichsbahn had a very difficult task in Russia that failed primarily because nobody planned for the Reichsbahn to embark upon such an ambitious project until a few short months before the invasion.

But what about actual supply consumption over the course of the campaign by formation?

What did other German officers say?

How many tons did the PzDivs consume compared to InfDivs, etc?

Any suggestions?

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Niklas Zetterling
Senior Member
posted 03-12-2008 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Niklas Zetterling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In "Der Munitionsverbrauch im Zweiten Weltkrieg im operativen und taktischen Rahmen", by Gerhard Donat, there is a chart showing ammunition consumption during operation Barbarossa, but it is not shown individually for each army group. It might perhaps provide some indication though.
There is also a MS (P-190) which contains good data on supply consumptions, but I am afraid that it only covers army group centre from 1 October onwards.

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Sean Oliver
Member
posted 03-14-2008 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sean Oliver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Niklas; Thanks for your very speedy response.

I noticed the book (Donat) in the bibliography of 'Logistik', and I'll try to get a copy.

The operations of AGC during Barbarossa - especially the Smolensk Campaign - are in need of some serious, in-depth research. I have tried to find material on German operations and there almost no serious books which address Smolensk in detail. I suppose the best is vol. IV of MGFA's history, but it does not go into enough detail.
Far too much of the literature on this period depends almost entirely on Halder's diary and the OKW KTB. Virtually none of the literature available cites German divisional records, mush less corps or army.

To the Dupuy Institute staff; How about taking a crack at researching Smolensk?

I really admire all of you guys' work on Kursk, and other work done by various members, especially Niklas' debunking of several Normandy Myths. But frankly, I think Kursk is 'played out' as far as interesting revelations go (just my opinion, of course).

Smolensk (and the various AGC battles before, after, and to the north and south) on the other hand, is truly one of the most important battles of the war - perhaps more decisive than Stalingrad - and it deserves much much more attention from researchers.

I've been working on it for awhile as has Robert Westby, and Mike Avanzini at HPS. Perhaps we could pool our research or something....

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Kjetil Aasland
Senior Member
posted 03-21-2008 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kjetil Aasland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you want to have a serious look at that, I'd strongly recommend looking directly at the documentation. There's no need IMO to go to such a low level as divisions or corps for a general picture - If you take a look at the Tätigkeitsberichte of the O.Qu. of the armies, I can promise you you'll get as much supply data as you could possibly want, and then some. There is also quite a bit of material that has survived from Heeresgruppe Mitte. I have not worked directly with logistics (which is in my opinion also somewhat overrated as a causal factor in Barbarossa), but I have been through many of these files for other things the O Qu reports contain, and it is my definite impression that most things to do with supply were recorded very specifically and systematically.

cheers

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