I wish to know:

1) On average how many riflemen + machineguns + howitzers/guns were needed to man a single kilometer of front? E.g., a division how much front can hold while not engage in offensive or defensive battle.
2) The same question as (1) but regarding an offensive posture/battle.
3) The same question as (1) but regarding a defensive posture battle.

For me it will also interesting to know:

4) How much is the daily attrition ration (e.g. casualties per 1,000 man in line) of a unit holding a trench in no battle condition?
5) The same question as (4), but in a offensive context.
6) The same question as (4), but in a defensive context.

Note that the data I am interested on are the total of combat troops, excluding support & services.
I know, for example, that in the Italian front before Caporetto was available a rifle every 10 centimeters of front. Naturally this accounts also for the riflemen that are not deployed but maybe in rest, reserve or training.

Hope to be clear in my request, if someone can help me or direct me to some reliable sources (better web sites than books).

Bye

Well, you are probably looking at the issue in the wrong way. To start with, the density of forces on any front it entirely determined by the length of the front (i.e distance between Switzerland and the Channel) divided into the number of forces available (number of troops raised and deployed by France, French Colones, England and Commonwealth).

The densities differed by Front, the Italian Front certianly being more dense than the Russian Front and with the fighting in the Middle East being the most open of all.

There was no figure for what "was needed" to man a single kilometer of front. It was all driven by what you had and how much front you had to defend (as always).

Now often people publish norms for how much a division should cover in the attack or the defense, but if one has an area to cover that is twice the norm...one is not going to defend half of it. Therefore, I am not entirely sure what is the value of such norms.

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Hope to be clear in my request, if someone can help me or direct me to some reliable sources (better web sites than books).

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There are some normative figures and examples of this sort in several of Trevor Dupuy's books and reports for WWI. For the type of gross statistics you are looking for (frontage, total troops and casualties), it may be easiest to just calculate them yourself. The frontages can be measured, the total troops are usually reported in books (be wary, though). You may have to do a little research for casualties.

In general, I doubt if you are going to answer this question through websites

Yes I know that absolute figures are not reliable for all conditions of terrain, so maybe I concentrate on the Western Front.

I can calculate myself the proportion of the forces (I must first find how long was the front in France...over 600km? and how many division were deployed on the first line) but I preferred to search more precise data.

Can you suggest me some books, maybe from TDI, that include extensive statical analysis about losses and attrition (especially for WWI)?

Thanks again.

W.

PS: I see that in other posts some people post statical data about losses, especially in WWII, something on hand you can post?
Bye

Numbers, Predictions and War, see pages 11, 14, 28, 100-103, 234-237:

From page 28: Typical Frontage occupied by a force of 100,000: 20.83 km

Attrition, see pages 28, 31, 35, 39, 40, 45, 49, 51, 53, 54, 58, 59, 61, 141, 142, 144m 145,

From page 28: Typical Frontage occupied by a force of 100,000: 14.33 km

From page 39: Average annual casualty rate (US WWI, 1918): 52.86%.

Average Daily Casualty Rate: 0.14%

Averaage Daily Division Engagement Casualty Rate (During periods of intense combat): 4.0% (This is for a US division of about 27,000 men. Rates for brigades of nearly 10,000 men were about 6% per day).

I think that my next purchase will be about your books.

Good bye.

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Thank for your quick response.

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Well, it really depends on how much I want to ignore my real work.

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Yes I know that absolute figures are not reliable for all conditions of terrain, so maybe I concentrate on the Western Front.

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There are some sample engagements in the back of Numbers, Predictions and War that you may want to look at.

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I can calculate myself the proportion of the forces (I must first find how long was the front in France...over 600km? and how many division were deployed on the first line) but I preferred to search more precise data.

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The West Point Atlas in on line. So, one can calculate the frontages of an entire front from that. Helps to have one of those little rolling measuring devices (I forget what it is called).

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Can you suggest me some books, maybe from TDI, that include extensive statical analysis about losses and attrition (especially for WWI)?

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Either Number, Predictions or Wars or Attrition (or both). I am not an expert of statistics of the WWI, but Ellis also has a WWI handbook out. Another book that I kind of like is "The Pity of War" by Ferguson. These may all be a little too general and top-level for your needs. I have not looked into WWI combat at the division-level yet (but expect to with an upcoming study).

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You probably need to find someone more expert than I am.

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I need someone more expert than ME. I think that I have found someone now...

W.

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Originally posted by Wehrmacht:
Hello to all sirs,
I post here to ask some questions about trench warfare (1914-1918) statistical data.

I wish to know:

1) On average how many riflemen + machineguns + howitzers/guns were needed to man a single kilometer of front? E.g., a division how much front can hold while not engage in offensive or defensive battle.
2) The same question as (1) but regarding an offensive posture/battle.
3) The same question as (1) but regarding a defensive posture battle.

For me it will also interesting to know:

4) How much is the daily attrition ration (e.g. casualties per 1,000 man in line) of a unit holding a trench in no battle condition?
5) The same question as (4), but in a offensive context.
6) The same question as (4), but in a defensive context.

Note that the data I am interested on are the total of combat troops, excluding support & services.
I know, for example, that in the Italian front before Caporetto was available a rifle every 10 centimeters of front. Naturally this accounts also for the riflemen that are not deployed but maybe in rest, reserve or training.

Hope to be clear in my request, if someone can help me or direct me to some reliable sources (better web sites than books).

Bye

W.

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Whermacht,

I'll give you some guidelines and considerations per my active duty time as Platoon Commander and Rifle Company commander in the 1970's -- closer to WWII wpns than now for sure.

The building block is the Rifle Squad, say 10 men per Whermacht organization, which is always deployed in a linear manner -- all men "on line" execepting perhaps the squad leader. Normal fronatage is about 100 to 125 meters.

However, spacing is adjusted based on terrain and visibility. Having interlocking fires from the positions firing at 45 degrees or so was the key, and the objective was for each riflemen to be able to see and fire to the front of at least 2, preferably 3 positions to either side of him. As Chris mentioned regarding terrain, such could be accomplished with 2-man positions up to 50 meters apart in an open desert environment, and as close as 10 meters being necessary in thick foliage or uneven contouring.

Machine Guns are deployed to fire across Platoon or Company frontages -- with their 1000 meter effective range -- although to get "knee-cutting" fire across a front, round droppage reduces that range to about 1/2 (500 meters).

The choice in disposition comes at the Platoon level -- either 3 squads on line, or, preferably, 2 up and 1 back. Here again is Chris's point about how much frontage your unit is assigned to hold. This is what made the Whermacht so vulnerable on the Eastern Front, is the huge frontages mandating limited defense in depth, hence regular punch throughs by massed Soviet attacks. The "1 back" at all levels is used to either block / seal breakthroughs, and/or counterattack. Especially effective is the ability to combine a blockage or counterattack with massed supporting artillery fires.

As the Platoon can be deployed either 2 squads up, 1 Squad back, so can the Rifle Company be disposed analogously. Preferable is 2 Platoons up, 1 back. At this level, a Platoon in reserve with Company Mortars in support, small scale counterattacks are possible.

So you can see the variables here. At Platoon, Company, Battalion, Regimental, and I guess even Divisional level, one can deploy in either a 2 up, 1 back manner, or all 3 up.

Guidelines for a Battalion, with 2 Companies up, 1 Company in reserve is a little over 1 Kilometer, so the PREFERABLE full-strength Infantry Division frontage (9 Inf Bns of about 800 to 1000 personnel in each) would be about 5 KMs -- with moderate visisbility and foliage. That would be 2 Regiments Up, each with 2 Bns up and 1 Back, and the 3rd Regiment in reserve. Such disposition would provide multi-level defense in depthj, as well as providing substantial reserve forces to resolve any frontage penetrations.

Of course this could be maybe as much as double that frontage (all 9 Bns on line) if 1) you were facing an opponent with no tanks, artillery or air support (yea, right!) or 2) you wanted to make it easy for a strong enemy to blow through you (Eastern Front model).

Of course the Eastern Front divisions attempted more innovative solutions such as strongpointing, but when faced with a vastly numerically superior enemy, loaded with tanks and artillery, there is not much that can be done with a Supreme Commander who values holding Russian Steppe more than the lives of his soldiers.

The WWI model shows how difficult it can be to penetrate defenses with proper frontages and offenses lacking in necessary Combat Power (tanks and close air support) to do so.

Hopefully this makes it clear why there is no definitive answer to your question -- until the variables of own strength, enemy strength, required frontage, and type of terrain are known.

Thank you for considerations, they are much useful to me.

W.